Former CIA Officer John Kiriakou Explains the Part Everyone Missed

EXTENDED EPISODE Big thanks to our partner, Dose. Use the code CARLOS for 35% off your next purchase. https://dosedaily.co/CARLOS What happens when a CIA officer refuses to participate in one of the most controversial and morally questionable programs in modern history? Let me tell you—this is the story of a man who put everything on the line, from his career to his freedom, just to stand by his moral compass. I sat down with a former CIA officer, John Kiriakou, who’s lived through some of the most dangerous and high-stakes moments of modern history. He told me about working in Athens, right in the heart of terrorism threats, facing off with multiple terrorist groups. In just two years, he recruited five valuable assets, a feat that earned him major praise from his superiors. One of the most intense moments of his career came in 1990, just hours after Iraq invaded Kuwait. He was sent straight to the White House, where he briefed President George H.W. Bush himself. He identified Iraq’s occupation governor as Dr. Ahmed Hathi, co-founder of the PFLP—this was huge. He walked me through some of the cover tactics they used and gave an insider’s look at the CIA’s mindset post-9/11, especially their turn toward “enhanced interrogation” methods. Here’s where it gets even more intense: When the CIA started embracing torture, he was the only one out of 14 agents who refused to go through training. Why? Because he believed it was not only illegal but ineffective. He compared it to the FBI’s much more effective approach: rapport-building, not brutality. It was a stand that would cost him. After he went public with ABC News, claiming the CIA had a torture program approved at the highest levels of government, his world completely shifted. He was investigated, arrested, and pressured into a plea deal. He ended up in prison, facing the consequences of standing by his moral compass. That’s not where the story ends though—he also faced PTSD, a divorce, and a career that came crashing down. But what he had to say about the CIA’s leadership decisions, JFK documents, Epstein, and even Gaza really struck me. He gave some powerful advice: always trust your moral instincts, no matter the cost. This conversation isn’t just about espionage—it’s about integrity, the truth behind the headlines, and the human toll of doing the right thing. ___ At its core, The CARLOS Podcast is about resilience, fearlessness, and real truths we’re not supposed to say out loud. If we’ve made you pause, rethink, or feel a little more connected, become part of what we’re building. Here’s what you can do: 👉 Join our membership community for early access, bonus episodes, and extra moments. 👉 Grab something from the online shop to represent the community wherever you are. 👉 If you’re already a member, thank you, share this post with one person who loves real conversations. Join the community: Shop Dose: https://dosedaily.co/CARLOS (code CARLOS for 35% off) Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheCarlosPodcast Shop: https://thecarlospodcast.com/collections/the-carlos-podcast-merch IG: https://www.instagram.com/thecarlospodcast/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/thecarlospodcast TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thecarlospodcast LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thecarlospodcast X: https://x.com/carlospodcast 00:00 CIA Torture Program Teaser and Whistleblower Claims 00:48 John Kiriakou Interview Intro, Former CIA Officer Story 01:28 CIA Operations in Athens and Middle East Terror Groups 02:17 CIA Spy Recruitment Success and Intelligence Work 03:01 White House Briefing During Iraq Kuwait Crisis 1990 06:43 CIA Cover Stories and Undercover Spy Plane Incident 07:52 Dose Supplement Ad Break Health Routine 08:46 CIA Leadership Criticism and Political Influence 10:03 Post 9/11 CIA Torture Program Shift Explained 10:38 Refusing Enhanced Interrogation CIA Training 12:54 Waterboarding Explained by CIA Insider 14:40 Why CIA Torture Does Not Work FBI Methods 16:18 CIA Whistleblower ABC News Interview Fallout 19:04 Former CIA Director Espionage Charges Explained 20:47 Plea Deal, Prison Sentence, CIA Leak Case 22:23 Prison Survival, Mexican Gangs, Muslims, Alliances 24:05 PTSD After Prison and Life After CIA Career 25:20 Post-2016 CIA Leadership Shifts and Failures" 26:41 Trust Your Gut Moral Decisions CIA Lessons 27:15 Las Vegas Story Personal Check In Moment 27:28 Dose Supplement Benefits Cholesterol and Liver Health 27:59 Barbershop Taste Test and Lifestyle Segment 29:22 JFK Assassination CIA Involvement Discussion 32:24 JFK Files, Israel Named in Classified Documents 34:52 Counterintelligence Risks, Asset Recruitment Failures 37:10 CIA Marriages, Divorce, and Spy Life Impact 40:17 Athens Affair, Arrest, and Intelligence Consequences 46:12 CIA Culture, Sociopath Traits, Hard Truths 49:18 Epstein Case, Prison Reality, Elite Connections 50:13 Rapid Fire: Current Events 51:56 Favorite Books, Pete Seeger Influence